IFV:
- Does less damage than autocannons
- Doesn't lag players out
- Can't fly
Autocannon:
- Does insane damage
- Somehow manages to freeze players
- Can just go slot 9 and escape in afterburner as soon as an AA comes out

My point being the fighter auto cannon is way too accurate to shoot and unrealistic, it should do more block damage than player damage

https://streamable.com/pcvtk7

Just want to point out that in the clip you have provided there are 9-11 cannons shooting at the player, I don't know about you but I think when 9-11 cannons are shooting at you, its expected to take a lot of damage

That is the clip provided by raptor, not ijust

1. The lag: The lagging out seems to more like "you" problem you need figure that out. Just coz few players are lagging out coz of fighters you cannot remove a feature used by everyone else. (that would be special treatment)

2. Raptors clip: As mentioned by burger it was a combination of 9-11 cannons and fighter(s), the fact that he survived that long it self proves that they are pretty balanced and not that OP (IRL you would die in 2 secs).

Overall the fighters are finally being used in sieges like before this there were barely any fighters at any point so now they are being used.

And also fighters have very low hull integrity so the speed and damage balance out the low hull integrity.

Start dealing with things its not hard to deal with fighters instead of coming and crying to nerf things just deal with them just shoot them down its not hard.

Seems like its too “unrealistic” i think we make it one tap players cuz it makes more sense.

So I'm assuming with these proposed changes you also want a major buff to IFV damage, correct?

Yes

Why not instead of nerfing autocannons, just buff IFVs because IFVs right now are way too weak. I'd also be fine with a SLIGHT nerf in autocannons if IFVs also got a good buff.

ijustcall i dont know about that clip bro i have never seen anyone lag out of that fighter auto cannon that can be a stereo skill issue cause there were 20+ ppl in coa vc i havent seen anyone glitch or lag or die in battlefield just cause one of em was shooting at em or near em cause when we were chasing your guys we still were getting damaged abit by our own fighter splash damage and it still didnt lag me or anyone else idk why u tryna show someones clip thats just his problem not everyones

You can’t make a defensible claim with evidence like that video raptor, the man was getting barraged by 10 cannons, three fighters, and sat still on banner dilly dallying in his inventory and died, that’s his fault not the fighters, having strong and counterable movecraft that can counter very good pvpers makes the game fair, and the autocannons were merely a stepping stone to the victory in that siege for the coalition, but the time it took to get the carrier there, get the pilots, get the mats to print the fighters, gave you enough time to get a 40k lead overnight, the people who died to the fighters died because they had 3 fighters shooting at them at once, not only 1, also, if you were to pull out your own fighter or pull out several well positioned AA trucks rather than 2 heavy tanks and one AA truck, I guarantee you would have stopped the fighter barrage in a heartbeat, you cannot mindlessly make suggestions everytime something strong is introduced without even trying to counter it using intuitive strategies rather than unstrategized movecraft pushing, why would you pull out more heavy tanks than AA trucks to shoot down fighters, knowing you have more pilots and more movecraft than the people you are fighting, 3 well placed AA trucks would have sent those planes to the ground in one hit, plus pairing that with two fighters of your own, and suddenly the fight is balanced, you can’t expect to have PvP from another server carry you through a server that is heavily movecraft reliant

All this suggestion is is a show of laziness and unwillingness to find solutions to beat something that is better than you because what you’re better at can’t possibly get a “nerf”

Also if you want to talk about realism, I feel like a hit directly from a fighter gun, MIGHT kill you, just saying

The tagged clip is literally his fault bro got 3 planes firing at him, he almost died once (0.5hp), but nooo because hes a pvper he can right click to pot so he decides to stay on banner to fiddle with his inventory while the fighters are shooting. Incredibly based.

Its not that deep bro.

Unrealistic? Seriously? Do you even read what you type out?

Autocannons run as soon as you pilot AA?
Just have someone sit on AA and be ready to pilot it at any time.
Everytime the Autocannon comes back, have that guy pilot the AA and he'll run away over and over again until he just wont show up with the Autocannons anymore
Autocannons and fighters are 1 tap, a single hit from a Heavy tank / AA truck and its done for

(Somehow) manages to freeze players?
Yeah thats just you dude. There are 10 - 15 coalition guys on the banner, and none of them are experiencing the same issues apart from that single individual from your side.

Im rocking with a 970 ti, i7-2600 and 8gb and i get 150+ fps in sieges and have never experienced any performance issues with movecraft
Oceanfury58 has a laptop from the late 2000s and he's not experiencing any issues with movecraft or sieges

A lot of the problems you encounter can be solved by utilizing the movecraft plugin more often and more effectively or finding a better performance modpack

Hopefully image this invalidates all the comment mentioning "more than 1 plane firing" or "9-12 cannons shooting at him" since this happened at a siege where barely anyone was online and Wxllop shot Kada101 for fun, with no other crafts other than an ACC in range :)

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1049668959919677481/1212409361113284761/Screenshot_2024-02-28-20-11-36-90_572064f74bd5f9fa804b05334aa4f912.jpg?ex=65f1bb35&is=65df4635&hm=184730d531fedc9563d75a09ba4564ddaaadb706c6c0096251d0ed60333a8b60&=&format=webp&width=392&height=571

So it can be said Fighter Auto Cannons are a bit too OP :D

Lets try to put aside bias for a second so we can examine the facts:

1. Auto fighter cannons do an insane amount of damage (to players and to movecraft), and it is evident that they were not created with the intention to be anti-infantry
2. Some use fighters' fragile composition as a counterargument (basically that they are a glass cannon). Let's examine that:
- The supposed counter to the auto cannon fighters are an AA (anti artillery) truck. However, AA trucks themselves are very weak and can be easily shredded by cannons, tanks, and fighters alike (the fighter "counter" is almost weaker than the fighter itself).
- Fighters are extremely fast and (factoring in afterburners) can easily go 20 blocks per second or faster. Now imagine you are in the very weak AA truck trying to take down one or more of these fighters. Yes it's possible but extremely difficult.
- Fighters can be used in large groups and squadrons, basically making it impossible for an AA truck to be effective. So, when used in large numbers, fighters basically have no weakness.
3. Auto-cannon fighters have largely offset the carefully crafted balance of infantry and movecraft use at sieges. With infantry not being able to counter the auto cannons in any way (other than spamming pots and praying), it becomes impossible to cap banner or even fight. Though difficult and inefficient, at least the Tankgewhr provides a possible counter for players to use against IFVs. Other than the aforementioned AA trucks (already addressed issues with that above), movecrafters really can't do much against fighters either.

This has resulted in fighters essentially being used as a carpet bombing strategy to keep players from being able to stay on banner for even a minute (a generous estimation given a player has a complete inventory of health pots). As you can see in the first clip provided by raptor, the player nearly dies numerous times (part due to the incendiary shells and part due to the auto cannons). At 9 seconds into the clip, you can see that the incendiary shell hits the player for 5 hearts of damage, while the auto cannon hits the player for 4.5 hearts of damage. The player survives this encounter luckily (on 0.5 hearts), and is then struck again at the 22 second mark. This time most of the damage is done by the auto cannon, with 6 hearts being lost in the first strike of the fighter's cannon (with some of that damage being attributed to a nearby incendiary strike), and 4 hearts lost in the second auto cannon strike merely milliseconds after. In half a second, the player goes from full health to dead. This is not an exception, but the norm. There are countless instances of players dying to the fighter auto cannons within a second, over the past 2 weeks. More clips have been captured and will be released once gathered.

While not technically "one-tap", the auto cannons shoot projectiles that deal around 3.5-4.5 hearts of damage in rapid succession (consider how much damage is done with other auto cannon fighters concentrating the same area as well). A damage nerf is absolutely necessary for the sake of balance. (Keep in mind other "insta-kill" methods have been nerfed, tweaked, or removed altogether over the years, this is not an outrageous request).

I also find the other 2 solutions raptor has listed as very interesting, and can perhaps address some of the other issues with auto cannon fighters.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk

What is this proof on this ''this was not intended to use as CAS''
''the autocannon is used at dogfighting'' i
Honestly that is the worst explination with 0 actual proof. Please dont be like Ijust and spam suggestions when you find something decently good which can actually kill a player.

That clip is just a trash pc issue tbh

In my opinion something like this was necessary, (REAL means for movecraft to remove players from the banner) even though from the video it is clear that not all damage is done by fighters, there is more than 1 fighter present at the fight and even then, the "heat" from everything combined is NOT enough to remove everyone from banner (there is many people just capping the banner and surviving in same situation) so clearly, even considering the fact that infantry has literally nothing to fight the fighters off, it is still not so oppressive that it completely renders them useless, you need to keep in mind that there were MANY people on that banner and they still managed to cap, so in the bigger scale, it was just one person that died, it is easy to make an argument that the damage was not even oppressive enough. But aside from the damage, that I do consider necessary, the thing that bothers me about fighters is that it IS true that they are very hard to deal with, so I would suggest to nerf fighters by allowing rifles to destroy their blocks (regular rifles) in same way how anti IFV guns deal dmg to IFV's. Also yeah, buff IFV's :P

TLDR - If the fighters were THAT op, everyone would have died, you can't say its broken because 1 person died from all that concentrated firepower. Still make rifles deal dmg to aircraft to make them less "untouchable"

nuxyr actually like 3 ppl died within a minute after the first guy

there are MANY more clips of this happening which are currently being collected, and at least 8 players died to auto cannons that session, if not more

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1052381423136411710/1212421632287834173/Screenshot_2024-02-28_at_9.30.35_AM.png?ex=65f1c6a2&is=65df51a2&hm=7ff7defa6881cb61e2da9ee685079014eec39ecbaafde81b080563f56fb82aa7&

You know the term air superiority?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1052381423136411710/1212421900349874227/Screenshot_2024-02-28_at_9.31.39_AM.png?ex=65f1c6e2&is=65df51e2&hm=aece92faae01642d3e5fff7d99608cbd0e207b4e22870bf58e22912ac520aaf1&

my bad I miscounted, 11 players in that session specifically

4 or 3 fighters + cannons you were supposed to die and all you did to defend movecraft was to make suggestion and ask to nerf them

actually multiple AA trucks were out and instantly shredded by the fighters, but I prefer to talk about the actual core issue at hand that specific instances

Gqlden I MUST SAY THAT IS A VERY BIG SKILL ISSUE :sob:
you literally have instant reload and very fast rotation. and only way the fighters could damage AA is to go head on where you have the biggest advantage.

I have not been there but from what I did see is that there was literally full on concentrated uninterrupted firepower shelling that chunk and people were still surviving, you can say how many people actually died during the session but is it really the imbalance? like from what I have seen people managed to just ignore it and cap, no matter if some of them died while doing it or if later at some point some more died during that session, it was clear from the video that people were surviving despite the DPS being practically maxed out on them, and in my opinion that should have never happened, destroying cannons and maybe even taking over the walls should be mandatory before capturing the siege chunk, now everything is easily just ignored and when something comes up that "punishes" people who ignore the cannons, we have threads like this.

And to be clear, despite SOME of the people dying, they were IN FACT ignoring the cannons and it worked pretty well, as what can be seen from video. The one person who died was literally just moving stuff around their inventory, if he just ran around in circles someone would have splashed heal just accidentally by healing themselves, it is extremely hard to land so many hits in such small period of time even when someone is not moving at all, because you need multiple people shooting the same person at the same time, but even then, by just moving it can be avoided

Nuxyr, everyone who was on banned died or had to leave. Nobody capped. The simple truth is that even with a full inventory of health pots you typically can't stay longer than a minute out with a auto cannon fighter on your ass.

I know it's hard to deduce the whole situation from a 24 second clip, but a tldr is that movecraft was sent out (2 aa trucks 2 heavy tanks vs the defenders multiple fighters and 1-2 heavy tanks), and the aa trucks got shredded immediately by the fighters, even with heavy tank as protection.

Alas my focus is not on the movecraft side of fighter auto cannons but rather the player damage, which it was never intended for

For all we know zaify could have done a small oopsie in setting the power of the auto cannons and we've been living with the consequences since

But from what I have gathered, there was a suggestion internally within the movecraft chat group to buff damage the auto cannons did to movecraft, which somehow inadvertently increased the player damage on an insane scale

Its true PVPERS do not care one bit that a big Movecraft craft is coming down and shooting at you they dont coz they have that feeling that "huh puny movecraft cant do anything to me PVPER" and then they proceed do whatever the hell they want do to and they die to the movecraft coz of there carelessness then they have reasons FPS, lag, they are TOO OP, they cant accept that fact the movecraft is capable of killing pvper if they stand there infront of them, then they cant BELIEVE THAT THEY DIED then they come to the website type suggestion asking it to nerf "OMG MOVECRAFT AS KILLED AN ACTUAL PVPER" so that next time they can stand and do whatever while 3 fighters are shooting at them actually do nthg to them.

Also gqldn you said that you had couple of AA trucks out by couple i assume that its either 2 or 3 soo either the pilots of the AA trucks where DOGSHIT or you were outnumbered.

yeah I really can not talk about the situation because I was not there, but at the same time I was in Vira siege, and we had 2 fighters on our side and 3 cannons shooting at same time at siege chunk and we killed nobody and the opps still capped, only thing fighters DID destroy was one IFV, and they also managed to damage few Heavy tanks, but the heavies still managed to decimate the fort despite the fighters so ye, idk, I honestly don't think it is that oppressive as people are trying to make it out to be and also from what I DID see from that clip, it was not at all that dangerous

Like sure it is a contrast to the "rubber bullet" guns we have and also the "nerf cannons" because those things straight out don't kill people, but still does not seem like literal unavoidable one-shot like people are trying to make it out to be

I understand wanting a way to easily clear ppl off banner at a siege, but tbh the defender advantage is already so strong, making anything that can essentially kill everyone on banner whenever needed just makes it impossible for attackers

And this is an unbiased thing, you can see the same thing happening at livland when we spammed incendiary on banner and tons of coalition ppl died and were unable to cap

In my opinon the defender advanage is there clearly because the walls do one thing very well, they just disable melee PvP, so when it boils down to just ranged stuff shooting at each other without Melee PvPing, the attackers can not do anything, I do not think nerfing ranged weapons further solves this problem. I am still firmly convinced that BUFFING ranged weapons would actually buff attackers and not defenders. Wall cannons being objectively underpowered is just a fact and I don't think it is reasonable to try to use "defender advantage" as justification for that, because there are plenty of ways to put things into balance without completely gutting the player damage from cannons.

The yapping is real here
B ifvs have had a balanced part in true meta found by buffing and debuffing them over time and this makes them impractical
C there are many clips of them dealing almost one shot to a player and the fact you argue for this is insanity because I could just as well use it against you
D it isn’t unfair to remove this because anyone can use it and you are arguing to keep an unbalanced meta towards fighters making ifvs impractical
E we need to also make carriers give points based on if their range goes into a seige

That isn’t my clip but in my experience it does 3-4 hearts of damage

Increasing IFV damage while simply decreasing autocannon damage is a reasonable change, planes should not instakill both Movecraft and players, and land Movecraft should be useful as well. Movecraft should influence sieges, not decide them.

I think we have mayor problem with the AA Cannon itself. While we have a lot of variety for every possible movecraft class or cannon we only have 1 for Anti-Air. The SAM has been in Movecraft for solid 7 Months now and still isnt on Nations.

Honestly, I agree with what lordsrubka said after the siege: they're simply OP. This is not intended either, because those familiar with their implementation will know that autocannons were intended to counter ground vehicles, not players.

At the same time, I'll note that Roman usage of Movecraft at that siege was severely lacking, and the siege in general was poorly and hastily prepared (from what I understand).

Imo, a nerf is in order but not a nerf to the ground.

I can’t believe it’s that controversial like you can see is no many clips that it does too much damage and as a man who developed either these autocannons on fighters for the last month I know the ins and outs of it

honestly using fighters is only based on what the pilots skill is. we have pilots who imidietly die to a freaking slow ahh heavytank shell and pilots who atleast know how to dodge a shell by moving 3 blocks up.