I think the speed needs to be nerfed atleast, they are way too fast to be normal, and should me be nerfed by around 50%, considering the damage buff and the all-crit hits.

I think horses are fine as they are now. Cavalry was main part of army in medieval era of wars so many battles were won by superior cavalry.
And coming to reinforced armour its pretty hard to get them so it should be worth it. And the super speed horses are pretty hard to grind again it, so it should be worth it and its a reliable fast travel method.
Even though it's pretty hard to kill a horse by sword it can be killed very easily by cannons and ifvs (I think). So it's a natural thing from centuries that cavalry dominated ground Infantry if you nerf horses basically no one would use them.

Yeah speed or health nerf, not a massive fan of people just jumping on a horse and 4v1ing and doing insane damage before running away to repot. At the moment their is zero cons of using a horse

Faster+higher health, higher damage are the pros.

You used to not use them because guns were insanely overpowered and most people preferred sword PvP.

The only con is maneuverablity, it's difficult to go through small curvey spaces butin a siege zone that's really not that important.

I don't mind if they don't get better but it would be funner if they were so upvoted

Horses are not hard at all to get you just need horse spawners bought in vshop and one only good horse that everyone has nowadays, plus reinforced armor is not worth that much and even if it was this is like doing a potion that gives you x2 damage x3 speed and x4 health which will be for sure unfunny and unfair

Dhiras while I do love Calvary and it is a very important part of combat, it is imbalanced and the difficulty to kill them is near impossible, if they dip below 10 pots in their hotbar they will go to ganks to refill.

Reinforced armour is pretty easy to get and the majority of players have it.

If you nerf horses it would still be a viable option for those who aren't the best sword pvpers it would just be more balanced

Cannons and IFV are an option however shooting a horse with either is EXTREMELY difficult.

Breeding maxed out horses is pretty easy and are sold very cheap.

Not to mention you still can't hit an enemy's horse even if the enemy is in combat while they are in a town you don't have perms to. This basically making it impossible to hit the actual player atop the horse and is quite ridiculous since you will be taking 2x damage whilst being unable to hit the enemies horse

Hmm, I see your point dhiras, yes horses were a main point of mediaeval wars, but horses back then weren't lightspeed unlike on CCNet, Nations with little to decent dust reserved can easily make dubs of reinforced horse Armor (So did I back in 2021 with Konigsberg and Pathere reserves with little to no effort except for the carbon part).

So possibly, it could be made such that reinforced and diamond horse Armor reduce the speed by 60% and 50% respectively, and leather, and iron Armor by a fraction possibly. No horse in medieval times was as fast as this, and reinforced Armor realistically is heavy and diamond as well which would obviously slow down the horse.

In the medival times remember that if a horse got stabbed it would be in pain.

A good idea might be to make a horse slower when it takes damage? Keep horse travel a thing but when in combat not be able to run away at triple speed .

I understand the argument about the speed of horses, but I just don't understand all the other arguments. With a horse, you can never actually kill a real pvper. If you do, you just get stunned and critted out. Also, terrian plays a big part, often at seiges there are big holes and sometimes water, which severely stunts the use of horses. Not to mention, icy crossbows and poison are easy killers. You guys mention Movecraft, but you forget horses are often dragged and suffocate to death if they get close.

Also you cannont talk about how easy it is to access horses. They can only be realistically used if you have donator or excelsior.

With a sword, you can never kill a real pvper, if you do, you just get stunned and critted out

Horses are actually immune to the "big holes" as compared to players, where horses can easily escape with the 4-5 block jump, icy crossbow stuns the horses for fraction of a second and the poison 1 as well as 2 just makes it stop for 200ms and continues to lightspeed

My argument is just that the speed should be nerfed, regardless of the downside they are way too fast as of now

Supporter is now insanely easy to access at 10k per, not to mention the majority of people who go to sieges either have supporter or exelsior, not to mention anti debuff potions arr horsable so they don't get stunned

“With a horse, you can never actually kill a real pvper. If you do, you just get stunned and critted out.” Of course you can you have all the advantages, more damage, more health and you got more movement. “Horses are often dragged and suffocate to death if they get close” this has nothing to do with what we said it’s rlly hard to shoot them with movecraft or guns because of how fast they move plus it’s also illegal to drag them or suffocate them using movecraft unless they try to get inside the movecraft and get trapped by themselves.

Alnh is refering to a new player and i would assume no new player would not have 10k to buy donator. Nor know the people to contact that sell donator. And for seiges horses make it less painful when dying being able to get back realatively soon. Encouraging more participation in seiges.

You even said it new players won’t be able to use horses meaning they won’t have a chance against someone using one, therefore once they die they won’t go back because of they not having a chance to win against something like that, this getting people to stop participating in sieges.

Horses actually arent that op. They drain your pots in minutes. Take a shit ton of hp, need fire res, they die really often you have to breed them and if you get a crit chain on a horse it’s over. I don’t think that horses are overpowered and theyre actually like really easy to counter with shields and being one block below the horse

Alnh when did i talk about horse vs horse?

They don't really take a lot of hp and they move really fast so you really cannot get a critical hit chain unless the user is lagged out or is not moving lol

I talked about how people who don't have donator can use a horse already in a capture egg and bring it to the siege.

Also i forgot to mention that they get one shotted by ifvs and cannons

Idk if i just a have a skill issue but whenever i tried to fight somebody who actually knows what they are doing and not running away i just get stunned and waisted pots.

Contt and they do you need to use like twice as much pots if youre on horse and if your horse dies its joever because you probably dont have pots

They don't, lol

IFVs take 3-4 hits + when they move like 19 blocks per second its kinda impossible to get a 3-4 hit chain

YOU GET STUCK WHEN HIT WITH IFV

They need 8 crits to die that’s not taking a lot of damage a diamond p4 soldier only needs 6 and it’s even more expensive to get a full maxed gear than one only reinforced armor plus you can check the people defending horse PvP saying they are not over powered are the ones who also always use them and get a lot of new player kills with them because they are actually op.

Also alnh what are you rambling about ”2x damage and 4x health”????Horses boost your damage by 15% and you cant crit with them and they take almost twice as much damage as a regular sword player

"YOU GET STUCK WHEN HIT WITH IFV" ??

My horse barely stopped moving when some Japanese was shooting at me with 2 ifvs at ulaanbatar siege

They get new player kills as horses allow you to get near the back where the noobs are. Horses during sieges are only really good against gunspammers. And I dont see how they are op.

Linan you only can crit with horses you can’t do normal damage hits meaning its easier to fight with them you do more damage you move faster and you can also either chase people or run away easier

I dont know the exact things that happened during that time contt so i cannot make a comment on that. But from my experience using horses friendly and enemy ifvs melt horses in a blink of an eye.

read the wiki and play sieges first

"you will deal 32% more damage while riding a horse that is travelling at 12 blocks per second. " While players use 14 speed horse which is around 33-34 percent of damage buff

Contt they literally get one shotted and alnh no theres only a 15% damage boost on horses and you dont crit when you hit

You are talking about if horse riders consistently can hit those shots and as I said before you need to have good aim and get used to the timing to hit the shots. Horses cannot simply be picked up and be powerful.

Linnan you just ignored what I said so I'll repost it

read the wiki and play sieges first

"you will deal 32% more damage while riding a horse that is travelling at 12 blocks per second. " While players use 14 speed horse which is around 33-34 percent of damage buff

Wait nvm the wiki chat mesages have been lying to me you deal almost as much as a crit when hitting

Contt the messages dont load when im typing a new one

alpha3130 you seem to be really against this suggestion who has likely barely pvped against a horse let alone even come to land sieges, lol

Is not like you don’t need to aim when normally pvping, having bad aim don’t make them not op I grabbed horse for like 2-3 times and killed at least 5 players each time cuz they are op

Alnh its harder to aim with a horse whos moving 20 blocks per second than normally

You see Linan is like if you were always critting when using horse that’s what I don’t like

Horses are easy to counter not my problem that you just cant do it

They are not easy to counter, like i said
Only if you read the thread instead of being stubborn.

Yeah as always when arguing with you, you just can’t understand the point, not because something can be countered means it’s not op. If there was an ifv that could 2 tap you it wouldn’t stop being op because a heavy tank can destroy it don’t u get it

Contt I admit I haven't been to a seige in a while but by my last seige was livland 4 months ago. And I remember 5 horses just dying whenever I went anywhere near Banner, forcing me to chill around Konigsberg, ambushing the movecrafters. 

Contt you can kill horses really easily with any movecraft or with a shield. Theyre not op although the damage boost could be lowered to be 15% always

Alnh, you are chalking up horses to like a powerful boost. But there are a shitton of counters horses have to deal with. And a shitter like me can't simply use a horse and become godly with it.

”As always when arguing to you” are you referring to the build steal incident

And as I said before, if horses were so damn good, why haven't both sides only used horses?

Because as you said before new players doesn’t have access to them

I mean your guy's words "not to mention the majority of people who go to sieges either have supporter or exelsior"

And with your comment i can i assume that every person who does have access to them uses them to pvp?

I'd only think speed should be nerfed while wearing horse armour.

That was Ali not me I specifically said horses make new people don’t want to fight in sieges. And yes people do use horses if they can just look at death using them to camp new people or to just chase people inside of claims cuz he knows they can’t hit his horse in claims I can send proof of him doing it xd

"camp new people and chase people inside of claims" the entire point i have been making is horses main use has been killing non pvpers. Not being machines that make you so much more powerfull.

And if you wanna use death as an example (I understand it is a montage) if we just look at his first video I don't think i see him always using horses that are apparently so op. And his only horse kill on the video was him chasing down a gun spammer with no pots. Wouldn't you assume such op weapons would be shown more?

The footage you are referring to his him just clicking on people and they can't outpot a horse's damage, the majority of people can't outpot horses damage, Especially not hit the horse back without dying.

This is ccnet not a PvP server, sieges are laggy and most players are 100ms plus.

Potting against a horse that's crittkng you 24/7 and you can't do anything back isn't fun

I have better idea. Change nothing but remove them from spawn eggs. This pokemon stuff is wack and there is no challenge in bringing a horse to battle.

Well that would remove horse's 99 percent from sieges which isn't something people want.

Not to mention egging horses is one of the leading reasons to get supporter rank

Womp womp. I leash my horse across sea I deserve to use more than the guy that has a dub with horse eggs and just summons them from thin air and has no losses when said horse dies

I think its reasonable to nerf its speed. Its faster than a fighter if you put speed 2. But this suggestion is bad imo. Reasons can be seen by others here.

LOLi know ccxxvii leashed his horse from africa to suihua in a vanilla boat

I've wanted diamond and reinforced armour to slow down horses for a while now. It was, in fact, was one of the original ideas for horse combat - but I didn't have the knowledge to implement it at the time I wrote the plugin.

Slowness 2 with horse armour might work zaify

From personal experience:

- Horses are unfun to fight against (neb horse ;-;) pearling away buys you 15 seconds max before they are back to hitting you

- Most horse riders worth their salt check craftlist or simply use comms to know when someone fields an IFV/tank
The unmatched movement control with the only real risk is the loss of an easily replaceable horse (or it's simply re-
captured before pearling to safety)

Armies have won battles outmatched 10:1 by having cavalry. This is quite literally why formation is everything in battles and having designated groups to do designated jobs. Cavalry is part of military tactics whether you like it or not. If your enemy has a horse, it's on you to bring your own instead of trying to get them nerfed. I think this issue can be fixed quite easily by buffing damage that firearms do to horses or adding an elephant gun. I personally don't think nerfing horses in any way would be beneficial. I'm saying this as a non-donator who almost never uses horses and has fallen victim to players using it to win fights on horseback in seconds because they can't do it on foot.

nerfing the speed of horses sucks for those of us who use them for transport.

Try reading the suggestion again grey I did not ask to nerf horses speed for traveling if they want to lower speed it should be only while the horse is in combat. Before just down voting the suggestion because they asked you, you should actually read it. Then Ashes I don’t get why you down voting this suggestion if you never go to sieges and therefore you don’t understand how annoying and unfunny is to fight against them. Ig buffing damage of guns against horses will work but it still leaves open the problem of swords not being able to fight against them. It should be easier to just lower the armor resistance so its harder to use them.

i didn't downvote alhn. was replying to the dude who said we should nerf the speed. i honestly don't really have that big of an opinion on this so i won't be voting

Alnh just learn horse PvP, or gunspam. It's what I often do and it works quite well.

Horse vs Horse PvP is genuinely so painful and I dont think many people find it fun, gunspamming is insanely difficult to hit a target moving 20ms

I watched a neboogles video the other day of 8 romans critting out his horse and it didnt drop. they need the nerf and iirc solomon ive never seen you kill a horse in a siege